Although overall I’ve been impressed with Malone’s scientific knowledge and ethical outlook, it’s hard to rule out that he’s a part of a limited hangout psyop pitched at a sophisticated audience. The Langan piece and the Trumpism are fine for a conversation over a beer but given the current political environment they serve to harden the impression of liberals that the vaccine skeptics are enemy yahoos.
You're mostly likely correct. I think Malone might be out of his depth when it comes to matters that touch on political philosophy or metaphysics. Much as I hate wasting my time on reading Langan, I'm going to devote at least some time to figuring out what he's talking about, aside from his repulsive reference to eugenics and white grievance.
It would be great if you familiarized yourself with our work before misrepresenting us. We are not affiliated with any "communities" as a matter of policy. We have a CTMU Teleologic Wellness program that encourages wellness in all people of all ethnic groups. We believe that all communities should work to improve their genetic health and integrity and develop their spiritual connection within their cultural traditions. We love our fellow man and want all cultures to be preserved and allowed to self-actualize without interference. We are personally Christians but believe salvation can be attained through most religious/cultural traditions (except perhaps Satanism and secularism).
Probably both Breggin and Desmet are both correct. There is an elite evil cabal with ulterior power and financial grabbing motives behind the "pandemic" and its response. However there is also a tendency for fear-driven psyops to create a mob mentality in isolated and confused people who desire to be connected to a group with a powerful leader. It would be prudent to read Desmet's response to Breggin at https://open.substack.com/pub/mattiasdesmet/p/am-i-an-expert-in-mass-formation?r=rflm4&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web . Should not our goal be to have opposing opinions expressed and debated by learned people with opposing viewpoints? Would it not be helpful for Breggin to accept Desmet's invitation for a public debate? Just as important as it would be for Fauci, Walensky, and Collins holding an open public debate with Malone, McCullough, Vanden Bossche, Yeadon, Thorp, et.al.
Desmet: "Is there any steering and manipulation at all then? The answer is a resounding yes, there most certainly is all kinds of manipulation. And with the means available to today’s mass media, the possibilities are simply phenomenal. Such steering, however, is rarely done by individual persons; the most fundamental steering is impersonal in nature. The steering is first and foremost driven by an ideology—a way of thinking. Ideologies organize and structure society progressively and organically." This is basically wrong with regard to Covid, and I might add the theory of CO2 catastrophe. There was widespread, organized, deliberate steering during Covid. This is what drove it, and what still does.
And: "If we keep in mind the definition of a conspiracy—a secret, planned, intentional and malicious scheme—we immediately notice two things: it’s not much of a secret since all the aforementioned “plans” are available on the internet." Suggest you read Breggin's cogent response to this one.
"In the process of exercising power—i.e. shaping the world to ideological beliefs—there usually is no need to make secret plans and agreements." Really? This has never been done?
Breggin's point is that yes, all of this was carefully orchestrated and the mass formation happened precisely because people were deliberately, intentionally frightened, and people died because safe, effective drugs were deliberately and intentionally withheld from them. This is what really happened. Desmet wants to argue that what happened was in a way coincidental and almost inevitable: he's apologizing for the actual conspiracy that robbed many of us of lives and freedoms and livelihoods, which for him didn't really exist.
Read Breggin. I used to think he was being a bit mean-spirited but I now think he's spot on and the evidence is with him.
Let me put it this way, since some of us seem to be taken with the new philosopher genius featured in a recent post on this substack.
What Desmet is proposing is a narrative that doesn't exist in the ontology of the physical world.
It's a "narrative," maybe even a psychological metaphysics. How did those who implemented the Covid scare succeed, to the extent they did? By controlling the narrative. I'm not saying Desmet is in their employ (he may just be useful) but he's saying exactly what the conspirators would want him to say, if there were in fact a conspiracy (and there was/is.) Namely: there's nothing to see. It was just a spontaneous mass formation.
Simply speaking, "Mass psychosis" just seems to be the latest buzz term to describe a crowd's tendency to act like a herd, as well as people's tendencies generally to want to belong to a group or tribe, mainly for reasons of security and acceptance. That's not to deny the existence of a few individuals in society whose principles or ethics outweigh personal considerations. That's always been the way, whatever labels are used to try to put a new spin on it.
This infighting between people ostensibly on the same side is petty and damaging to the greater cause.
Isn't the greater cause that we should be free of medical censorship and able to live our lives as we see fit with minimal interference, and no surveillance, from the state?
The point of Breggin is that this mass psychosis was done to us; with Desmet, it happened to all of us but not by any conspiracy. Really? Read what Breggin wrote. I think it's spot on.
Desmet: not to worry, no conspiracy, pull yourselves up by your bootstraps and get rid of your psychosis and everything will be OK. Is that really the way to proceed: to assume there was no conspiracy? And if there is a conspiracy-- and there is-- then wouldn't that be exactly what they'd want us to think? To get on with our lives and forget about it? While they tighten the noose?
Desmet's view is inconsistent with that of RFK, Jr., and with that of the Breggins. Think about it.
So long as we're united in one single thing, we'll all be pulling together. That one thing is the end of censorship and the sanctity of individual self-determination.
So the widespread suppression of hydroxychloroquine, the concerted effort to demonize this drug and to forbid its use as documented by Dr. Nass, despite that it's a remarkably safe drug in the doses suggested for early treatment-- all of this was just an example of how an ideology gets a grip on society?
Desmet is saying exactly what the perpetrators of a conspiracy would want him to say. Does Desmet's narrative reflect reality? Those of us who've been following fairly closely what happened with hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin know that what happened was far more than an innocent triggering of ideology.
But did you read Breggin's take? I think Breggin is more convincing than Desmet.
"They prefer to stay blind"? I don't think so. The arsenal of the state, the medical community, and the media were all manipulated prior to any blindness such that the populace believed the narrative they were presented was true, and alternative voices and treatments were actively and viciously censored. The only reason some of us know what really happened is that we went to alternative media, which isn't something that busy people accustomed to getting supposedly "trusted" news would do spontaneously, especially since we were constantly and deliberately warned of "baseless misinformation."
If people had access to accurate information, hidden from them, they wouldn't have been blind, would they?
When Dr. Malone starts repudiating Langan, I may start believing him again.
I don't doubt that Desmet's intention is pure. I just don't think he understands what really happened and is one of those who, as Breggin points out quite convincingly, defends against any conspiracy or elaborate prior planning, except to acknowledge this in the mildest of terms. Yet Breggin and RFK, Jr., both exposed in their books how prior planning to usurp the medical system and essentially make us slaves to the pharmaceutical/technological complex, which allows a very few to manipulate the many, has been going on for some time.
Breggin's book is very convincing. Hard to read because we prefer not to think that things could be so corrupt and depraved and inhuman. This corruption and depravity and inhumanity are not due to mass formation, but those who impose this inhumanity certainly understand and use "mass formation," and that's perhaps where Desmet goes wrong.
I am very familiar with Mr. & Mrs. Breggin's dislike of Dr. Desmet and I can't fault them for trying to make a buck. Langan? While any appreciation of white culture or white people is taboo in 2022, he should not be ignored. Charles Murray, and Richard Hernstein are often dismissed and ridiculed for their forthright and honest reporting in THE BELL CURVE. Never forget what happened in Rwanda and Haiti.
I understand. I get in nasty moods myself, and Malone's promotion of Langan put me in one.
You might want to watch the video of Langan in the link: https://greyenlightenment.com/2015/04/21/worlds-smartest-man-supports-eugenics/ Something is wrong with this man. Isn't he just an arrogant pup presenting himself as Mr. Genius? "Most people don't even know what decision theory is," says the genius. How pompous! Because, you know, you and I have to know decision theory to make decisions, right?
Honestly, I can hardly bear to watch that 11-minute video. And Malone is promoting that crap!
Freedom is a privilege, not a right, says the genius. I don't think so. We are all equal, he says ... except those of us with the brains will have to unilaterally make the tough decisions (for the rest of us.) Really??
Nietzsche was critical of Christianity because those who give eventually run out of things to give. I cannot disagree completely with "Mr. Genius". As a CPS Worker I learned that it is possible to guess that an unemployed man and his partner, sharing a house with five kids and at least two dogs will come to the attention of the welfare department at some point. Sadly, there are people, and even groups of people, who will always be nothing but a drain on society. It would be wrong to put a bounty on them and unconstitutional (currently) to de-sex the parents and stop the cycle of poverty, child abuse, and alcoholism. But it will not be possible until the fascists have complete control.
Thanks for this esp the link to Breggin’s article. I liked their book and found this a valuable add on to my understanding of their argument.
Although overall I’ve been impressed with Malone’s scientific knowledge and ethical outlook, it’s hard to rule out that he’s a part of a limited hangout psyop pitched at a sophisticated audience. The Langan piece and the Trumpism are fine for a conversation over a beer but given the current political environment they serve to harden the impression of liberals that the vaccine skeptics are enemy yahoos.
To clarify, I still think it is more likely that Malone is genuine than deceptive.
You're mostly likely correct. I think Malone might be out of his depth when it comes to matters that touch on political philosophy or metaphysics. Much as I hate wasting my time on reading Langan, I'm going to devote at least some time to figuring out what he's talking about, aside from his repulsive reference to eugenics and white grievance.
It would be great if you familiarized yourself with our work before misrepresenting us. We are not affiliated with any "communities" as a matter of policy. We have a CTMU Teleologic Wellness program that encourages wellness in all people of all ethnic groups. We believe that all communities should work to improve their genetic health and integrity and develop their spiritual connection within their cultural traditions. We love our fellow man and want all cultures to be preserved and allowed to self-actualize without interference. We are personally Christians but believe salvation can be attained through most religious/cultural traditions (except perhaps Satanism and secularism).
https://youtu.be/OA1SDjZ00tE
More on CTMU Teleologic Wellness: www.teleologic.org
Everyone is invited to look over our video and newsletter and make up his or her own mind.
Probably both Breggin and Desmet are both correct. There is an elite evil cabal with ulterior power and financial grabbing motives behind the "pandemic" and its response. However there is also a tendency for fear-driven psyops to create a mob mentality in isolated and confused people who desire to be connected to a group with a powerful leader. It would be prudent to read Desmet's response to Breggin at https://open.substack.com/pub/mattiasdesmet/p/am-i-an-expert-in-mass-formation?r=rflm4&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web . Should not our goal be to have opposing opinions expressed and debated by learned people with opposing viewpoints? Would it not be helpful for Breggin to accept Desmet's invitation for a public debate? Just as important as it would be for Fauci, Walensky, and Collins holding an open public debate with Malone, McCullough, Vanden Bossche, Yeadon, Thorp, et.al.
Desmet: "Is there any steering and manipulation at all then? The answer is a resounding yes, there most certainly is all kinds of manipulation. And with the means available to today’s mass media, the possibilities are simply phenomenal. Such steering, however, is rarely done by individual persons; the most fundamental steering is impersonal in nature. The steering is first and foremost driven by an ideology—a way of thinking. Ideologies organize and structure society progressively and organically." This is basically wrong with regard to Covid, and I might add the theory of CO2 catastrophe. There was widespread, organized, deliberate steering during Covid. This is what drove it, and what still does.
And: "If we keep in mind the definition of a conspiracy—a secret, planned, intentional and malicious scheme—we immediately notice two things: it’s not much of a secret since all the aforementioned “plans” are available on the internet." Suggest you read Breggin's cogent response to this one.
"In the process of exercising power—i.e. shaping the world to ideological beliefs—there usually is no need to make secret plans and agreements." Really? This has never been done?
"Plans and visions for the future are not so much “forced” on the population. In many ways, the leaders of the masses—the so-called elite—give the people what they want." Again, suggest you read Breggin. https://breggin.com/article-detail/post_detail/Mattias-Desmet-Mass-Hypnosis-Expert-or-Trojan-Horse-The-Full-Story?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
Breggin's point is that yes, all of this was carefully orchestrated and the mass formation happened precisely because people were deliberately, intentionally frightened, and people died because safe, effective drugs were deliberately and intentionally withheld from them. This is what really happened. Desmet wants to argue that what happened was in a way coincidental and almost inevitable: he's apologizing for the actual conspiracy that robbed many of us of lives and freedoms and livelihoods, which for him didn't really exist.
Read Breggin. I used to think he was being a bit mean-spirited but I now think he's spot on and the evidence is with him.
Let me put it this way, since some of us seem to be taken with the new philosopher genius featured in a recent post on this substack.
What Desmet is proposing is a narrative that doesn't exist in the ontology of the physical world.
It's a "narrative," maybe even a psychological metaphysics. How did those who implemented the Covid scare succeed, to the extent they did? By controlling the narrative. I'm not saying Desmet is in their employ (he may just be useful) but he's saying exactly what the conspirators would want him to say, if there were in fact a conspiracy (and there was/is.) Namely: there's nothing to see. It was just a spontaneous mass formation.
Simply speaking, "Mass psychosis" just seems to be the latest buzz term to describe a crowd's tendency to act like a herd, as well as people's tendencies generally to want to belong to a group or tribe, mainly for reasons of security and acceptance. That's not to deny the existence of a few individuals in society whose principles or ethics outweigh personal considerations. That's always been the way, whatever labels are used to try to put a new spin on it.
This infighting between people ostensibly on the same side is petty and damaging to the greater cause.
What is the greater cause?
Isn't the greater cause that we should be free of medical censorship and able to live our lives as we see fit with minimal interference, and no surveillance, from the state?
The point of Breggin is that this mass psychosis was done to us; with Desmet, it happened to all of us but not by any conspiracy. Really? Read what Breggin wrote. I think it's spot on.
Desmet: not to worry, no conspiracy, pull yourselves up by your bootstraps and get rid of your psychosis and everything will be OK. Is that really the way to proceed: to assume there was no conspiracy? And if there is a conspiracy-- and there is-- then wouldn't that be exactly what they'd want us to think? To get on with our lives and forget about it? While they tighten the noose?
Desmet's view is inconsistent with that of RFK, Jr., and with that of the Breggins. Think about it.
So long as we're united in one single thing, we'll all be pulling together. That one thing is the end of censorship and the sanctity of individual self-determination.
Perhaps you should read what Desmet himself says?
For example: "These are examples of how an ideology gets a grip on society, not evidence of the execution of a conspiracy."
https://mattiasdesmet.substack.com/p/am-i-an-expert-in-mass-formation?r=rflm4&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
So the widespread suppression of hydroxychloroquine, the concerted effort to demonize this drug and to forbid its use as documented by Dr. Nass, despite that it's a remarkably safe drug in the doses suggested for early treatment-- all of this was just an example of how an ideology gets a grip on society?
Desmet is saying exactly what the perpetrators of a conspiracy would want him to say. Does Desmet's narrative reflect reality? Those of us who've been following fairly closely what happened with hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin know that what happened was far more than an innocent triggering of ideology.
But did you read Breggin's take? I think Breggin is more convincing than Desmet.
"They prefer to stay blind"? I don't think so. The arsenal of the state, the medical community, and the media were all manipulated prior to any blindness such that the populace believed the narrative they were presented was true, and alternative voices and treatments were actively and viciously censored. The only reason some of us know what really happened is that we went to alternative media, which isn't something that busy people accustomed to getting supposedly "trusted" news would do spontaneously, especially since we were constantly and deliberately warned of "baseless misinformation."
If people had access to accurate information, hidden from them, they wouldn't have been blind, would they?
Xioblack, thanks for your contribution.
When Dr. Malone starts repudiating Langan, I may start believing him again.
I don't doubt that Desmet's intention is pure. I just don't think he understands what really happened and is one of those who, as Breggin points out quite convincingly, defends against any conspiracy or elaborate prior planning, except to acknowledge this in the mildest of terms. Yet Breggin and RFK, Jr., both exposed in their books how prior planning to usurp the medical system and essentially make us slaves to the pharmaceutical/technological complex, which allows a very few to manipulate the many, has been going on for some time.
Breggin's book is very convincing. Hard to read because we prefer not to think that things could be so corrupt and depraved and inhuman. This corruption and depravity and inhumanity are not due to mass formation, but those who impose this inhumanity certainly understand and use "mass formation," and that's perhaps where Desmet goes wrong.
I am very familiar with Mr. & Mrs. Breggin's dislike of Dr. Desmet and I can't fault them for trying to make a buck. Langan? While any appreciation of white culture or white people is taboo in 2022, he should not be ignored. Charles Murray, and Richard Hernstein are often dismissed and ridiculed for their forthright and honest reporting in THE BELL CURVE. Never forget what happened in Rwanda and Haiti.
Exactly why should Langan not be ignored? What do you see in him? And what does Rwanda and Haiti have to do with it?
Honestly, I never heard of Langan before your post. I was just in a nasty mood, earlier. I'm fine now, thanks.
I understand. I get in nasty moods myself, and Malone's promotion of Langan put me in one.
You might want to watch the video of Langan in the link: https://greyenlightenment.com/2015/04/21/worlds-smartest-man-supports-eugenics/ Something is wrong with this man. Isn't he just an arrogant pup presenting himself as Mr. Genius? "Most people don't even know what decision theory is," says the genius. How pompous! Because, you know, you and I have to know decision theory to make decisions, right?
Honestly, I can hardly bear to watch that 11-minute video. And Malone is promoting that crap!
Freedom is a privilege, not a right, says the genius. I don't think so. We are all equal, he says ... except those of us with the brains will have to unilaterally make the tough decisions (for the rest of us.) Really??
Nietzsche was critical of Christianity because those who give eventually run out of things to give. I cannot disagree completely with "Mr. Genius". As a CPS Worker I learned that it is possible to guess that an unemployed man and his partner, sharing a house with five kids and at least two dogs will come to the attention of the welfare department at some point. Sadly, there are people, and even groups of people, who will always be nothing but a drain on society. It would be wrong to put a bounty on them and unconstitutional (currently) to de-sex the parents and stop the cycle of poverty, child abuse, and alcoholism. But it will not be possible until the fascists have complete control.